It was really an interesting read. Not in the way that I get to know smth new about the T*rouble but it's like a small instruction: what to say and how to desribe this stuff not even to common people but to doctors as well. Actually it's quite good and offense many things that was written on some @resistance site@ - can you believe it? The site that gives instructions to actually stop being gay or TS or both! LOL. To be honest seems like things were written the same pattern but with different goals at the end. Then you really get confused how practically the same info can be reverted to both say "yes" and "no" on one topic (depending what site it is on). -_-
That was an interesting read a bit long for me I can honestly but not proudly say I usually get bored of reading peoples links before they are finished but this one held my flea like attention span thanks for sharing.
Well now I feel bad about myself. I like the "androgynous" look, but am I perpetuating a negative stereotype (It's a trap) just by looking the way I do? The article had great points, but now I'm just confused even further about myself in general. I'm too passive for so much of this... I only really act when I have no other choice, especially on choices I'm unclear on in the first place. So do I just stay stuck in limbo while I keep getting told how handsome I am by my mom while people who don't know me say how pretty I am? Grahhhhh... I'm starting to wish I could just have no gender and be DONE with it entirely. Maybe I'm just agender and hate that my mother seems to expect to me to "grow up" one day and start looking more like her "son".
I don't think there's anything wrong with being androgynous, as I don't really think that's "trap" behavior. Because it doesn't sound like you're doing it to "trick people". To me, it sounds like you're doing to be comfortable and happy. If it happens to make people think something other than what you're going for, it's not as though you're actively trying to trick them. Rather, they're just making assumptions themselves, and that's not your fault. ^_^
I have to admit that there's something that bugs me about her #6 point. Although I agree with the sentiment I wouldn't, personally tie it to genitalia. Of course that viewpoint may well be unique to me and I clearly agree with what she's getting at. (Repeating this is intentional.)
It may seem strange to many transgirls, and I understand why they would consider it strange, but my problem with my issues with my desire to be a women have never had anything to do with what's between my legs. It's the other, smaller things that bug me. Being too tall, too large in general, facial hair, body hair in general, male clothing (yuck), of course the thing I hate most is the expectations, the assumption that I must be tough and rigid and MANLY at all times. That I have to put on a front, a disguise of machismo that falls so ridiculously flat and more often than not has gotten me beaten up anyway. More often than not, by my brother who cannot abide anything that he views as unmanly. (Yet, I'm the one who watches Football. Go figure... )
This is just one of many things that confuses me about myself and it's a massive stumbling block that I keep running into. It just seems, from my perspective, that so much of the transculture seems to revolve around the notion of SRS. And it's just not even something I'd ever consider, and somehow I've always felt this stigma that it made me less of what I feel inside when nothing could be further from the truth.
I hope this doesn't stem into too much information territory, but I really need to say this and say it publicly because there might be others who feel like I do.
Oh and I don't feel brave right now. If anything, every word posted here was done with me shivering with fright and apprehension. So now I guess I understand why there's the objection to that. Although, I admittedly felt anyone who came out of the closet was very, very brave. But only because I'm pretty entrenched in my closet.
It's not unique to you, and you're not the first transgirl I've met that feels like this. If you're okay with the genitalia, then you're okay with the genitalia. That doesn't make you any less of a transgirl, and you'd be surprised by how many are not interested in the surgery too. In defense of the writer, she might imply that genitalia to be the big issue here, but she also says, "We transition out of discomfort with the male body." Being tall, having body hair, having to wear male clothes is all still quite directly related to that "male body" whether by genetics or social construct. Men are generally taller, typically grow facial and body hair, and it's "totally unacceptable" in our society for one to be wearing women's clothing. You have different reasons, but you come to the same conclusion, so it's not weird or anything.
And the gender roles thing is equally irrelevant. So you watch football? And? Plenty of cis girls do. And I personally know a football watching, violent video game playing, truck driving, butch transwoman, and she's very happy with who she is. It's a beautiful thing how varied and different we are.
So, seriously, don't beat yourself up. You're fine.
Well, when I brought up football I really didn't mean it that way. I was more pointing out that my brother harasses the crap out of me because he's a hyper-masculine jerk off and has to attack me anytime I do anything that isn't hyper-masculine. He then tells me how much football sucks, when men have told me for ages it's the epitome of male pastimes. I do actually know a lot of women who love watching football, and some of them are pretty girly. I get what your saying, it's just my brother is such a bigoted jackass...(not to mention violent, as well.)
That aside, thank you for explaining that to me. I always feel like I'm doing something wrong and it's good to know that I'm not the only one who feels this way.
Mrrrr, I wish people like that did not have that much effect on other people's lives. >_<
It is quite nonsensical, particularly since a Viking would mock your brother's lack of braided hair and the Sun King would not even cast a glance at a man without high heeled shoes. Any hope in pointing that out? ^_^'
Oh, and there is no wrong path or wrong goal when it comes to gender and transition. You are you, and who you are will never be inferior to anyone else or demand any less validity. Some of us would sell nations for SRS, while others are fine or even want to be without it. Whichever path you pick, ignore the highwaymen and continue on your merry way!
She's sadly leaving Freethought Blogs though cause of all he harassment she's encountered in atheist and skeptic circles. :s She's gonna try and continue blogging somewhere else though but I think she's also still struggling with finding somewhere to live so that's understandably not a priority right now.
That was very enlightening. I'll admit I pretty much started learning about Transgender as a whole through your work. A lot of quandaries were resolved thanks to this. Obviously I'll still need to learn more but the learning experience was nice! In short: Thanks for sharing. ^_^
I hope I dont sound too odd, But I find the surgery to be so amazing. Its freaking awesome that that is possible! I find those kind of things to be fascinating. I like science-y surgical type things. Im strange.
nice article, i think it described transsexuals very well. ill admit, i used to be ignorant to a lot of this stuff but i never discriminated because of it. i think i can understand it somewhat because im transgender myself. i dont stick to societies standards of whats male and whats female, though i understand that your situation is a lot different. as a Christian, i think were all just as God made us, transsexual or not
Jocelyn, may I call you Jocelyn. I've been a big fan of your work ever since I started reading. Not just because of how well the characters and story are written, but because you make me think and rethink every time. When I first learned of the term "trap," I never considered it to ever apply to Transwomen. At the time my understanding was simply a man who enjoyed cross dressing and looked like a woman. Gender identity and sexuality were separate factors unconnected, although I will admit I once wrote a comic with a gay crossdressing male in it. I never considered him to be trans. Yet after reading your journal entries, comics, and these various articles I now feel uncomfortable with the phrase. I'm actually a little ashamed. I'm not asking for any forgiveness or anything. I'm not so immature that I think I need it or that you're an authority who can grant it. I just want you to know you've taught me a lot. Thank you.
If you've read this and find that I'm being in anyway presumptuous or ignorant... Or use too many run-on sentences, let me know. Don't hold back.
Don't sweat it, hon. I'm not mad. If anything, I'm very happy to hear that you've come to learn and understand more about the subject, and seek the opportunity to improve your thoughts on the matter. That's more than a lot of people can say. So, I would say thank you too. For caring. ^_^
You know, I had no idea how much Transwomen are treaded poorly, (I knew that they were treated poorly, but not this bad) especially when I looked at the Youtube video on the first part, I scrolled through the comments, and there were a lot of hate, but thankfully, there were some good things too. Thank you for sharing this, I feel as though I have had the door to acceptance opened further, even when I thought it was opened all the way. Once again, thank you for sharing this.
Yeah, I admit that despite being the victim of a few smaller disputes, I've been extremely fortunate for the most part so far. So even I forget just how badly the trans community is treated as a whole sometimes... admittedly, though, only sometimes. It never lasts long. I know many transfolk personally. I hear the stories all the time. And no matter how many times I hear it, it still shakes me up.
So, I'm happy I could enlighten you by showing this, albeit sorry that the situation is bad enough to require something like this.
Ah, but you are brave, for you do have a choice, and while the alternative does not seem real to you, it is safe -- a path for cowards. You have turned to pass by Scylla where most would sail into Charybdis, for no reason beyond that it was the path that others asked them to take. Most would rather sail blindly into the great vortex that is the loss of one's identity, one's Self, than make their own path, to deviate from the well-worn roads that have led so many others to safety, despite seeing clearly that they are not so safe on this path as the others. They fear the other paths, each having losses of their own, because those losses seems far more terrible when seen from a distance than those they have will certainly sustain, if they do not turn away.
You have the will to be openly who you want to be, where most do not. You have the will to risk losing everything else, so that you might not lose yourself. You know the risk. You fear the worst. And yet you keep your bearing, because of the depth of your conviction that it is the right bearing, the bearing that you should take. This is what bravery is.
Probably a good set of articles. But a fair warning to you. You should be very skeptical about everything that's written on skepchick and freethoughtblogs. They're not known for their objectivity, let's just say.
I certainly don't agree and neither does Natalie which it's why she still writes there (even if she has decided she isn't going to write about anything other than trans* issues because of all the backlash against FtB, we are lucky she hasn't given up writing like Jen with all the awful slymepit people's attacks). Anyway, everybody is entitled to their opinion I don't want to start nothing nasty here so I promise to shut up after this post
Yea, you see, that's one of the issues. The site loves to write about things that they would consider "triggering subjects", yet, most of the people on there are adverse to confrontation. If there's anything i can give Watson at the very least, its that she's not afraid of confrontation. Sad most of the contributors are.
I think confrontation is a good thing, because it sparks conversation and it contributes to change in opinions. Not that you have to if you don't want to. I respect people's choices not to want that. All i'm trying to say that the site's quality (Or at least what's left of it) suffers because of it.
PS: But I don't agree, I don't mean you shouldn't be skeptical, but that they aren't awful or skeptical or have bad info as Q9R42 seems to think. They've been heavily criticised for things like asking for anti-harassment policies for atheist/skeptical conferences and other stuff mainly related to feminism.
I don't know what i could even say about someone like Rebecca Watson. If you haven't stumbled upon criticisms towards her and her site at this point, you probably don't care, and if you have seen that criticism, you probably don't agree. And it's not just her either. I'm just saying that she's the one picking people to write for her site, and she's.. Well. A total bitch.
Oh, I have. Particularly in regard to the Elevatorgate stuff and similar incidents. None of that was related to objectivity, however, thus why I was curious about that statement.
Neither would an ad hominem be, for that matter. A person's niceness is not relevant to how objective they are, if that is what you mean by a female Canis lupus familiaris. ^_^'
In personal opinion, I think Watson is a pretty nice person. I also think 70% dark is abysmally milky for chocolate. Those are both judgements of taste, which "She's.. Well, A total bitch" sadly is too. I think.
What is not an opinion, however, is that Rain is one of the best webcomics out there. So much adorable. X3
Not going to post links, but here are some of my contentions against skepchick: Promoting atheism plus, pro censorship, extreme feminism (If it could even be called feminism), and out right male hating. A lot of the content producers on skepchick is a propagator of at the very least one of these things.
And if you could call someone who rejects all men because someone found her attractive, is a hypocrite who has no issues saying "dick" or acting in a sexual manner, but loathes it when someone else says "cunt" or acts in a sexual manner, plays the victim card all the time, and who acts like a damn child, then you're a far better person than me. I just don't think someone like that is very likable or nice. Not that it matters. Her contentions are what matters, and those are equally as vile as her personality.
Some writers do indeed promote Atheism+, since the idea for it was to make a label for atheists who were also feminist, sceptical, intersectional and so on. Not sure why that is bad. ^_^'
As for the rest, those are nowhere to be found on any English-language part of the sites. They specifically support free expression and events like Banned Books Week, they have male writers who are surprisingly met with... well, exactly the same goofiness as every other writer and I have no clue what would be extreme about their feminism. That they covered the make-up issue without saying that it was inherently bad or good? :3
Uhm, Watson never rejected men nor reacted negatively to being found attractive. Hear plenty of people say that, and point to one video which had one statement about not asking someone to come to your room (to drink coffee... When you both just left a bar that serves coffee) when you are alone with them in an elevator and they just gave a speech about how some actions like that can feel threatening. It was pretty much just jokingly pointing out a blunder and then being met with the old "feminazi man-hater" response. ^_^'
Never met Watson, as I said, so I know little of acting sexual, though I do know that Watson is not against it. Just against people who act in a predatory manner (as an example; flirting is fine, trying to look up skirts is creepy). I have no idea what constitutes using the victim card versus discussing the problem of women and feminists being silenced online (Or is it bad to mention your own experiences with death threats? I can see how that could be an issue with objectivity) and I still wonder what is while about the contentions. Really, I have no clue what is objectionable in it after having read everything English-language on the network. Might I have missed something in particular? ^_^'
Oh, and I am a thousand times sorry for rambling on in a comment thread for Jocelyn's Journals. Sorry, Jocelyn! Will take it elsewhere if it is no fun! m(_ _)m
On a related note, Queereka has a few more of these lists. One about Gay men, one about asexuality, one about polyamory and a newer one about bisexuality. Not sure if those are particularly relevant, but I like lists. :3
Actually, what Jenna says could logistically be applied to anywhere on the internet. The internet in all it's glory is often just a giant opinion machine when it's not selling you long-distance plans or piggy-backing viral code onto your porn downloads.* Truly subjective statements are few and far between, and the ones that most loudly claim to be truly subjective are probably the ones that most certainly are not.
The information linked in this article, is fairly accurate though.
*That was an attempt at sarcastic humor, albeit a bad one. :/
I don't care about the site in general. I've never even heard of it until just the other day.
I'm only talking about this article right here, which is full of things I've been saying for years (albeit, I think she says it better). If the rest of the site sucks, then the rest of the site sucks. THIS article is good.